Cetane boosters

CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
edited July 2017 in Fuel and Oil
Hi all,

Just letting you guys know I tried a cetane booster product supplied by a former shell chemical scientist (allegedly) and after hearing the story "company x's bus lines is saving 18% fuel and all buses have more power" I gave it a go....

The results were complete opposite. Increased fuel consumption at 100kmh to about 9.6 and a clearly felt "lag" in acceleration.

Yes we have lower cetane rating than Europe, but my explanation is this: we've tuned for the cetane being used, delaying/increasing combustion for instance after being tuned specifically for the local diesel produces negative effects.

Anyone want to discuss?
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Comments

  • ICEWOLFICEWOLF Forum Addict
    edited November 2013
    Many moons ago some wise man said to me "if it's not fuel your putting in, your only diluting it".

    It has stuck with me all these yrs.

    Now on the other hand I'm a believer of chemical engineering too, so I choose my products very carefully.

    Would love to Dyno test my chosen Formula :D
    Especially with your tune Chris!!
  • ICEWOLFICEWOLF Forum Addict
    edited November 2013
    On the other hand my old man looks after a small fleet of Volvos & Kenworths & swears by the PM Lubricants fuel additive (long term & short term findings) ie less fuel use, cleaner burn with less carbon on the trailers.

    However I'll have to check if he's still using it on the Volvos with adblue injection & Exhaust catalyst.
  • SteevoSteevo Super Moderator
    edited November 2013
    Chris,

    You being a tuner and all, could you tune for that additive to give you the same sorts of driveability as you currently have in order to test it again.?

    I'm guessing your tunes assume the same cetane rating therefore a tune for that would require ongoing use of the additive.?!?
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited November 2013
    Sure, you could do a variety of things....


    One time cost and save money?
    Or no start up cost and spend more money per tank?

    That's the way I see it.


    I would be interested in more results but so far it's pretty obvious to me it's not worth a cent.
  • WinchyWinchy Forum Addict
    edited November 2013
    Interesting topic, this.
    In my old GQ patrol 4.2 diesel (pre turbo) I used a readily available fuel "lubricant" which was also a cetane booster. Main reason for using this product was to keep the seals on the original fuel pump supple while using the increasingly available low sulphur diesel.
    I had a turbo professionally fitted plus the fuel pump refurbished. I asked him if I should still use the additive and he basically said "spend your money on quality fuel", indicating that BP ultimate was the best on the market at present. This was 2005.
    I took his advice even though having to travel far and wide to find it as it was new to the market.
    If I ever filled up with "standard diesel" I certainly noticed the difference as in more soot blowing, less power and a slight fuel use increase.
    I've had the Amarok for 2 years now and still use BP ultimate when I can. Unfortunately it's only available in major metro areas.
    I definitely notice the difference when using "standard" diesel. I once had soot all over the tailgate after filling up with cheap diesel!
    I've tried to find out some specs from the major fuel companies. Shell diesel has a cetane rating of 49. BP standard diesel is 48, while ultimate is no less than 50. A small difference I know, but noticeable when driving.
    The only thing that concerns me, Chris is this cetane booster oil based like the one I used to use? Reason for asking is the risk of DPF blockage.
    We have to be very picky with additives on the new generation diesels I think. (or maybe just get a stage 2 tune)
    Phew, I need a beer!
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited November 2013
    They claim dpf safe... But I wonder how they work that out, trial and error? Hmmm... I love the vortex stuff and most guys I know with roks try to hover around to a vortex pump when they can....

    It's probably just a thing worth noting... Maybe a standard rok would benefit from it? We do change the injection timing a fair bit, so yeah....



    Certainly do, look at all that typing! :)
  • DrewDrew Super Moderator
    edited November 2013
    At the moment I've got a tank full of Mobil, as I've been told by the guys at Caltex (Newport Depot) that they are supplied in Victoria by Mobil - so why not cut out the middle man?

    I'm about 200 km into the tank, and at this stage, I've done just over 1/8 of a tank, with 780 km to go (if you believe the MFD) which I believe is exceptional for city driving...
  • davedave Supporting Member
    edited November 2013
    Drew wrote: »
    At the moment I've got a tank full of Mobil, as I've been told by the guys at Caltex (Newport Depot) that they are supplied in Victoria by Mobil - so why not cut out the middle man?

    Not all Caltex servos have Vortex........... so they obviously produce both. So I'm assuming that it is the standard diesel that is supplied to Mobil, otherwise they would market it as something special like BP Ultimate and Caltex Vortex.

    But, what would I know. :D
  • DrewDrew Super Moderator
    edited November 2013
    dave wrote: »
    Not all Caltex servos have Vortex........... so they obviously produce both. So I'm assuming that it is the standard diesel that is supplied to Mobil, otherwise they would market it as something special like BP Ultimate and Caltex Vortex.

    yeah, fair point... other way around though... Mobil Vic supply BP/Caltex - apparently the Vortex/Ultimate additives are done at the terminal when the tankers are filled... (or so I've been told)
  • davedave Supporting Member
    edited November 2013
    Drew wrote: »
    yeah, fair point... other way around though... Mobil Vic supply BP/Caltex - apparently the Vortex/Ultimate additives are done at the terminal when the tankers are filled... (or so I've been told)

    Oh..............I should learn to read proply. :blush:
  • DrewDrew Super Moderator
    edited November 2013
    dave wrote: »
    Oh..............I should learn to read proply. :blush:

    All good... :-)

    Pretty sure they told me that Shell are the primary supplier in NSW/QLD, BP in WA and SA import all their diesel from other states...
  • WinchyWinchy Forum Addict
    edited November 2013
    I have noticed a difference at the bowser with bp standard frothing and ultimate is like water with no froth or colour.
  • TurbobusTurbobus Senior Member
    edited November 2013
    I usually use vortex and can notice a small gain in smoothness and power (after crisp mods tube)

    I filled this tank at Bp in rocky, no signage stating anything about ultimate or premium diesel and am seeing better fuel use this time.

    I noticed on the docket that this diesel had <10ppm sulfur. Is this low/standard/premium????


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
  • WinchyWinchy Forum Addict
    edited November 2013
    Pretty sure that is the Oz standard now. (emissions)
  • Tornado_ALIVETornado_ALIVE Forum Addict
    edited December 2014
    I have a tin of Liqui Moly Diesel Clean and Boost at home. Looking to try this out on the Rok @ 30ml per 10ltrs. They recommend between 10 and 30ml.

    Has anyone had any experience with this product?
  • fishofisho Forum Addict
    edited December 2014
    A client of mine runs a caltex servo in Sydney and although he uses his own diesel for his hilux he admits that the bp ultimate is the best available atm.
    I try and use the bp ultimate when I can get it, or the vortex when I can't.
    I've been told to steer well clear of shell diesel although their petrol is supposed to be the best.

    Brains trust - I've heard (not substantiated) that the vortex available at woollies outlets is a lower quality to the non woollies ones. Any ideas?
  • googoo Forum Slave
    edited December 2014
    At the risk of sounding daft...
    Is cetane diesels equivalent of octane? If so, I always found when using 98 octane in anything that wasn't tuned for 98 resulted in worse fuel economy. I'm guessing it is the same thing
  • fishofisho Forum Addict
    edited December 2014
    goo wrote: »
    At the risk of sounding daft...
    Is cetane diesels equivalent of octane? If so, I always found when using 98 octane in anything that wasn't tuned for 98 resulted in worse fuel economy. I'm guessing it is the same thing

    Don't know if that's true Goo.
    I did 4 trips to Griffith a couple of years back in a camry and used e10 for the 1st one standard for the 2nd, 95 for the 3rd and 98 for the last.
    Each trip was about a month apart and prices were on the rise.
    With the e10 and standard I needed 3 fills and there was a decrease in the fuel used with the standard as well as a cost saving.
    When I used the 95 and 98 2 fills each and massive difference between them and the standard.
    The biggest difference was between the 95 and standard, however, when I used the 98 I noticed that I had way more power as well as better fuel economy.
    In this day and age of computer controlled injection I believe that the computer learns how the vehicle is driven and if combustion is better then adjusts accordingly.
    As an aside the difference between e10 and 98 for the trip was roughly $200 saving.

    Don't know if this would be relevant to diesels and whether additives would make a difference, although according to the opening post - not.
    Just my 2c
  • ozcaddyozcaddy Supporting Member
    edited December 2014
    goo wrote: »
    At the risk of sounding daft...
    Is cetane diesels equivalent of octane? If so, I always found when using 98 octane in anything that wasn't tuned for 98 resulted in worse fuel economy. I'm guessing it is the same thing

    Here you go explains it all
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number
    Oz
  • fishofisho Forum Addict
    edited December 2014
    Thanks [MENTION=1381]ozcaddy[/MENTION]
    Eye opening and confusing at the same time.
    It seems to say that the cetane may or may not lead to increase in power and better fuel economy although it does say it is a cleaner burning alternative.
    Sort of lends credence to @Chrispmods opening comments.
  • googoo Forum Slave
    edited December 2014
    Seems as though cetane and octane are similar but not the same [MENTION=1381]ozcaddy[/MENTION]
    [MENTION=4411]fisho[/MENTION] may be the case. For my old Subaru (2010) it ran better on 95, which it is designed for, than on 98. About 0.6-0.8l/100ks better off. Maybe this cetane booster additive will work better for me than crispmods or anyone else then... I am a firm believer in use what engines are designed to run on. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I also don't notice any difference between brands of diesel. They all still make the engine rattle and need filling up about 8 or 900ks after the last visit...
  • ozcaddyozcaddy Supporting Member
    edited December 2014
    I mentioned on another thread about this if I use BP Ultimate or Caltex Vortex Premium my engine seems quieter and smoother no noticeable increase in power
    As it states the higher cetane level increases the ability and burn of the fuel
    Oz
  • DrewDrew Super Moderator
    edited December 2014
    Regarding engine rattle, there is an interesting thread going over at VW Watercooled regarding the use of 2 stroke oil in diesel to shut it up a bit, with suffer claims of economy improvement

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
  • ICEWOLFICEWOLF Forum Addict
    edited December 2014
    Have been following that [MENTION=1447]Drew[/MENTION]. If it weren't for the dpf is have tried it already.
  • ICEWOLFICEWOLF Forum Addict
    edited December 2014
    [MENTION=2939]Winchy[/MENTION] ;) ;)
  • WinchyWinchy Forum Addict
    edited December 2014
    Not sure what you mean [MENTION=345]ICEWOLF[/MENTION].[emoji51] but I think I'll give the Morey's a go soon. It's a thin oil with cetane booster in it. I used it on the GQ to keep the injector pump seals soft after the introduction of low sulphur diesel.
    On the economy side of things, I just recorded my official best according to fuelly. 8l-100k. MFD claimed the average was 7.2. I'll post results after testing.
    I don't know why, but the Woolies vortex down the road from me is consistently crap. Even wifey noticed the clatter. When only a couple of ks away, the Woolies vortex is consistently good. Go figure...[emoji10]
  • ozcaddyozcaddy Supporting Member
    edited December 2014
    Drew wrote: »
    Regarding engine rattle, there is an interesting thread going over at VW Watercooled regarding the use of 2 stroke oil in diesel to shut it up a bit, with suffer claims of economy improvement

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    2Stroke oil if it is a 2Stroke diesel maybe , but go find a premium diesel retailer before sticking anything in your fuel , [MENTION=2939]Winchy[/MENTION] does that Woolies sign say Vortex or Premium Vortex?
    Oz
  • WinchyWinchy Forum Addict
    edited December 2014
    Yes Oz. Both are Vortex Premium.
  • ozcaddyozcaddy Supporting Member
    edited December 2014
    Winchy wrote: »
    Yes Oz. Both are Vortex Premium.
    The Woolies I was using had the sign up for Vortex Premium and overnight it changed to just Vortex stopped getting my fuel there
    Supposedly someone claimed the BP Ultimate to be the best premium diesel , I will admit when I get that I find the best result
    Oz
  • WinchyWinchy Forum Addict
    edited December 2014
    BP ultimate diesel used to be my first choice too, but then they took it off the market for a month or two a few years back and came back with their claimed "improved" ultimate. A bit of homework and found they reduced the cetane from 57 down to no less than 50. The only thing better is they use anti foaming agent, so that it doesn't froth up, so you can get a true tankful without waiting for the foam to settle.
    I use the Caltex now simply for economy as its always a few cpl cheaper than BP.
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