Ecu "chip" tuning - expert service ONLY $1399 for Forum members!

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  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
    Well have you seen what's involved to tune an amarok? There is no plug in methods for basically all newish cars to stop the tuning scene some even have obd and on-chip protection against un-authorized access to the ecu.


    We have to remove the ecu by removing the security screws, take off the security sealed lid, pin out the front of the ecu and place a pin directly onto the pcb circuit board to tune it. The minimum time to put a file in is 4 hours.

    It's also a lot more advanced ecu than the commo ecus, amarok run full lambda and egt controls to keep the engine in check and self tune to the parameters we set. Many European cars are like this and that's why they last and don't blow up :).


    Commo/Wrx/evo/xr6 are mostly "punch in some numbers and see what it does" sort of tuning, where as you have more control over the engine but less self monitoring functions. This can take many many revisions of the ecu file to get right because you're in charge of everything on those type of ecus. Basically you can tune one of these to blow up if you really aren't careful, so you have to check the tune usually many times on the dyno. With amarok's advanced ecu, it should be impossible to blow an engine due to tuning (unless you don't know what you are doing). Obviously there is more to it than that but you basically tell the ecu how to manage the tune using a variety of functions, instead of tuning the individual controls on the more simplistic ecus.

    So it's programming wise very friendly to tuning, but to get even 1 file into the amarok you need minimum 4 hours work and 1 hour work per revision using specialized hardware.

    The commos for instance you could do a file in 15mins and make revisions every 10 mins using obd methods.

    That's the basics.

    Good thing for us, a lot of car manufacturers are moving to the more advanced and secure ecus.
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
  • LeonFNQLeonFNQ Vendor
    edited July 2013
    Looks like things can get real technical.


    MY12 Trendline Cairns, Qld.
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
    LeonFNQ wrote: »
    Looks like things can get real technical.


    MY12 Trendline Cairns, Qld.

    Yep. The amarok is walk in the park compared to some.
    But then again, amarok tuning looks technical to obd tuners.
  • edited July 2013
    Did a little bit of light reading on an old forum I used to frequent and read comment from Martin Donnon about the increased complexity of tuning modern diesel engines over and above that of the Chev L98's and LS3's etc with their AC Delco ECU's. For the life of me I still cannot find the thread where he tuned up a Hyundai I30 diesel into a bit of a monster, was an interesting read and they use a Bosch ECU as well from memory.
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
    Interesting hearing that name again... Haven't heard it in years after the fallout of the Subaru discussions on tuning.

    I30's are OBD tuning, I've done an i35 diesel thru obd. They come up mint. Their OBD communication has been de-crypted.

    More ecu complexity = more stuff for us to mess with! :)
    Which usually means better before and after comparisons.
  • barrel01barrel01 Senior Member
    edited July 2013
    Ah Martin Donnan aka Doughboy, there is a blast from the past! I remember him and Peter Luxon from APS having some ding dong battles of forums in the early to mid 2000s
  • edited July 2013
    He used to be known as Street Tuna on the forum I frequented back in the day, I think it's one of the longest forum memberships I've had, over 10 years now ha ha! The gains on my old L98 were over 20% in power, don't remember in torque but suspect it was similar. I would be interested to get it tuned but still baulk at the price as well as worrying a lot more about VW and warranty than I ever did with Holden, perhaps as when things go bang on a Holden it's a hell of lot less exxy to fix if warranty is denied.
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
    Yep..
    But VW are more likely to hold together! :D

    All I remember of MD was his posts on the Suby forums getting ripped to shreds. Sort of sad but I think his ego rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way.

    Back on topic,

    Stage 2 "race map" tested.
    O M G.
    You guys have no idea how under-rated this 2.0 is from factory! :D :D
  • LeonFNQLeonFNQ Vendor
    edited July 2013
    CRISPMODS wrote: »
    Yep..
    But VW are more likely to hold together! :D

    All I remember of MD was his posts on the Suby forums getting ripped to shreds. Sort of sad but I think his ego rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way.

    Back on topic,

    Stage 2 "race map" tested.
    O M G.
    You guys have no idea how under-rated this 2.0 is from factory! :D :D

    What figures are you getting?


    MY12 Trendline Cairns, Qld.
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
    For stage 2? I'll have to dyno mine.
    Unfortunately mines getting a few bits done at a shop today/tomorrow and then I'm off to QLD to do some tune work so won't have "official" figures for stage 2 for at least a week.

    Stage 1: About 20-30% torque gains for the older ecu versions across most of the torque range. Thats if you are looking at the WOT dyno runs. Where we excel is in the partial throttle which you never see on the dyno but you feel everyday as you drive.

    If you have a look at that dyno run, we are only running an extra 3psi boost over standard on that run. We achieve more with less than other tuners:)

    If your maps haven't had the torque requests altered or the correct torque limiters edited, throwing extra boost and fuel at the map is like throwing an anchor out the window while trying to accelerate. Its best to ask your tuner which limiters and requests have been edited.
  • LeonFNQLeonFNQ Vendor
    edited July 2013
    Stage 2.
    Looking forward to the figures when you have them.


    MY12 Trendline Cairns, Qld.
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
    But you're a viezu customer now, how will this impact you :)


    Our dyno runs are on the first page for anyone interested, we have nothing to hide with our tunes.
  • LeonFNQLeonFNQ Vendor
    edited July 2013
    I never put all my egg in one basket ;) it would be great to see what gains your getting. I don't have dyno results for mine.


    MY12 Trendline Cairns, Qld.
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
    Fair enough.
  • flyingantflyingant Posting Freak
    edited July 2013
    Chris,

    I'm sold and will be in touch with your Sydney guy the minute my tax return comes.

    But I want to know if the stage 1 power tune is still more economical than standard IF you drive like normal but just want the extra grunt on tap. I've got 52k on my MY11 manual and have averaged 8.2l/100k so I don't generally flog it. If its going to use more juice whatever then I'll probably go the economy tune.

    Thanks in advance.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
    If you demand the same torque you will use less fuel. But its temping just to drive it harder with the increased torque. If you mainly do freeway, its best to go power tune and you'll see savings.
    Tough call, but you can switch to the other map if it doesn't do it for you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you demand the same torque you will use less fuel. But its temping just to drive it harder with the increased torque. If you mainly do freeway, its best to go power tune and you'll see savings.
    Tough call, but you can switch to the other map if it doesn't do it for you.
  • flyingantflyingant Posting Freak
    edited July 2013
    Chris, one more question. (I know, I know, but having someone I've never met perform brain surgery on my baby is a big deal for me!)

    You don't do a custom tune for each individual vehicle right? Your man Kypros would just identify which ECU variant I have and load the appropriate file?


    Anthony
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
    You have to let him know what you want the tune to do.. We have standard tunes that just work well but if you extra fuel savings where possible we remove some fuel or add air or change injection in that region, like say towing a small caravan at 110 kmh.

    Or if you are always in stop start traffic, that would be slightly different again.

    But when we remove or change something there is always a slight compromise. Like removing fuel does remove torque and spool speed in lower rpm.

    Best you tell him what kind of tune you want. Like an economy tune or a power tune are our 2 main options.
    If you will be towing or doing 4x4 etc.
  • flyingantflyingant Posting Freak
    edited July 2013
    Ok, so I do a bit of every thing except towing so I'm guessing your 'off the shelf' stage1 power tune is for me. I don't want it fine tuned for a specific circumstance.


    Anthony
  • ah1010ah1010 Member
    edited July 2013
    Perhaps while sinking beers up north you might indulge some "naive" questions... like someone said above having "brain surgery" performed on my baby is a big deal for me too never having had anything like this done before.

    If such improvement is so readily available why doesn't VW at least ship the vehicles with a stage 1 tune?

    If VW updates the ECU I imagine they do so through the diagnostic port via an encrypted link - correct?

    What physical changes are made to the ECU?
    Being exposed to surface mount electronics on a daily basis, having to modify the PCB is not something I would take lightly. Anything that is likely to compromise reliability of the ECU itself needs to be made clear up front. I have seen what dust & vibration can do to electronics so would like some clarification in this area as the vehicle will be used in the more remoter areas of the country.
    The promo shot earlier in the thread with the ECU having its guts exposed on the back of the vehicle makes me a bit nervous, ie I would hope that however does the work would be taking all appropriate precations.

    How to decide between power & economy tune?
    Realistically, the vehicle is mainly used in suburbia with periodic highway runs at legal speeds.
    Based on past trips its likely to see some sand use along with low speed firetrails and endless corrugations (hence the reliability concerns).
    With the equipment fitted it would have a constant day to day static load of 500kg or so.
    I don't use it to tow.
    It has a highline canopy & tires are 265x70R17 (32").
    Improved economy would be nice but extra go when you need it would also be welcome. I am averaging around 9.5l/100km as measured at the pump.

    Subject to it all working out would be looking at a tune in Sydney next week.

    ah
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
    ah1010 wrote: »
    Perhaps while sinking beers up north you might indulge some "naive" questions... like someone said above having "brain surgery" performed on my baby is a big deal for me too never having had anything like this done before.

    If such improvement is so readily available why doesn't VW at least ship the vehicles with a stage 1 tune?

    If VW updates the ECU I imagine they do so through the diagnostic port via an encrypted link - correct?

    What physical changes are made to the ECU?
    Being exposed to surface mount electronics on a daily basis, having to modify the PCB is not something I would take lightly. Anything that is likely to compromise reliability of the ECU itself needs to be made clear up front. I have seen what dust & vibration can do to electronics so would like some clarification in this area as the vehicle will be used in the more remoter areas of the country.
    The promo shot earlier in the thread with the ECU having its guts exposed on the back of the vehicle makes me a bit nervous, ie I would hope that however does the work would be taking all appropriate precations.

    How to decide between power & economy tune?
    Realistically, the vehicle is mainly used in suburbia with periodic highway runs at legal speeds.
    Based on past trips its likely to see some sand use along with low speed firetrails and endless corrugations (hence the reliability concerns).
    With the equipment fitted it would have a constant day to day static load of 500kg or so.
    I don't use it to tow.
    It has a highline canopy & tires are 265x70R17 (32").
    Improved economy would be nice but extra go when you need it would also be welcome. I am averaging around 9.5l/100km as measured at the pump.

    Subject to it all working out would be looking at a tune in Sydney next week.

    ah

    First of all I appreciate your concern, second of all chip tuning may not be for you. If you ask me or one of my dealers to come to you and cannot provide bench space then I make my own bench space. Otherwise I do the tunes at my desk if guys can leave their car for more than 1 hr, so I do whatever I need to, in order to get the job done. If you can't be flawlessly confident in your own work then you do not take the risk. I'm still at 100% on ebay and 100% on chip tuning, 1 day ill make a mistake but until that point I keep going and quadriple checking my work before any power is fed onto the board. I've chosen to deal with the dealers I've had mutually on the terms that they are blokes of high integrity and blokes with confidence in their work. Nothing should be impossible and nothing can't be rescued, we do what we have to, in order to get things done.

    Also there is 2 stages of care taken, the read stage has 1 level of care, where as the write stage takes many fold more care.

    Also myself and all my dealers take further caution to seal up the ecu to factory specs or better. Some of these steps are trade secrets and will not be revealed on the forum. We make sure it's the same as original in appearance but sealed and weatherproofed beyond factory specs with extra vibration and water/contact proofing on top of original exposed board specs. Being in the industry you should know exactly what I'm talking about, it's our insurance of conformity. (Hint)

    We use premium sealants on the outer case. They are worth the extra coin. (Hint)

    You are best to address your concerns over the phone as again, I don't reveal my real secrets online, but I've seen what the competition does and it's piss poor in most cases compared to what we do.

    We also do not solder boards in Australia where every conpetitors jobs I've seen have been soldered.

    I'd only solder hard joints in New Zealand for obvious reasons.

    If you are picky about fuel use I'd recommend an economy tune blend of some sort.

    Obviously factory tunes are a compromise between customer, EPA, manufacturer, driveline longevity, safety expectations etc. they cannot please everybody with a factory tune. My main focus is customer satisfaction.


    Call Kyp in Sydney to discuss.
  • flyingantflyingant Posting Freak
    edited July 2013
    CRISPMODS wrote: »
    I'd only solder hard joints in New Zealand for obvious reasons.

    Because of the earthquakes?!? Or the Keas?!? Can't imagine sheep causing any trouble....

    You've got me intrigued :)



    Anthony
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
    Yep daily tremors. Minor ones probably not that bad but I'm sure they get one a week that would be strong enough to possibly upset things.
  • ah1010ah1010 Member
    edited July 2013
    Thanks for taking the trouble to reply to my concerns.

    Will call to arrange fitment tomorrow.

    ah
  • wheelanwheelan Senior Member
    edited July 2013
    Flying ant and ah1010, just go stage 1, I'll put my left one on you will not want any more. Im still giggling with mine, (tune that is, not my left one!)for me its chalk and cheese.
    Paul
  • steveiehsteveieh Posting Freak
    edited July 2013
    Stage 2 all the way phenomenal........ 3rd gear pinned to the seat!.

    Steve.
  • LuckyLukeLuckyLuke Supporting Member
    edited July 2013
    Ok, I can't keep reading this. I want in. How can get hooked up over West (Perth), any other WA punters keen?

    I'm kind of keen for the Stage 2 option, but wonder if that's a silly idea for long distance (and remote) trips. Not worried about diesel, but reliability. Interested in your thoughts. Also a bit concerned due to extended warranty. I had a few concerns about long term issues and thought the extra 2 years factory warranty would be a good idea, particularly given that I don't do too many kms in a year, but surely it's worth nothing with the Stage 2 option.

    So maybe Stage 1 power tune is more sensible (gee that sounds boring). I definitely want more than I've got at the moment.

    I was going to call to chat about these issues, but thought others might be interested. I'll try to call in the next few days anyway.
  • CRISPMODSCRISPMODS Vendor
    edited July 2013
    If you want outback reliability, stage 2. I got a couple of ranger boys interested so maybe we will aim for mid sept? Spread the word :)
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